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This wasn't John Humphrys' finest hour. At one point in the interview, talking about the alternative vote, David Cameron said that AV was unfair because it could lead to some votes being counted more than once (because second preferences would be counted). Humphrys said that he would have a second preference too "and you count them again as well", allowing Cameron to tell him that he was "completely wrong". Having listened to the tape again, I think that Humphrys probably just made a verbal slip, and that he was probably just trying to make the point that when second preferences get counted, the first preferences of those voting for the main candidates get counted for a second time too. But he allowed Cameron to patronise him, and on Twitter commentators like Mary Ann Sieghart and Sunder Katwala have been letting rip.
As for the rest of the interview, here are the highlights.
? Cameron refused to condemn the scare tactics used by no campaigners in the alternative vote campaign. In particular, Humphrys challenged him about the No to AV posters suggesting that AV would cost �250m and that this would put the lives of babies at risk because there would be less money for the NHS. Cameron distanced himself from these claims. He said that there was a Conservative no campaign, which he was "directly responsible for", and a cross-party no campaign. He said the cross-party No to AV campaign, which produced the controversial baby poster, had been "robust". But he refused repeated invitations to condemn the messages it has been using.
? He insisted that moving to AV would cost extra money. "I do accept that if you go to a new system, it will cost money," he said, even though Nick Clegg (here) and Danny Alexander (here) have both said that AV would not lead to Britain having to spend money on new vote counting machines. When it was put to him that Australia uses AV without counting machines, he said: "Anyone who has introduced a new voting system since counting machines have been brought in has used counting machines. Indeed, the returning officer for London has said that it would be unthinkable not to have counting machines." (Cameron is wrong about this. In a letter to a paper last week, Anthony Mayer, the former Greater London Authority chief executive, said counting machines were used in London because politicians and the media wanted the results quickly. But if people were prepared to wait, counting machines would not be necessary, he said.)
? Cameron said the rows about the AV campaign would not stop the coalition providing "a very cohesive and strong government". Conservative and Lib Dem ministers were still taking decisions togeher, he said. "This was always going to be a difficult moment, with two parties on different sides of a referendum campaign."
? He defended the Pakistan government's record on terrorism. Although he said that questions would have to be asked about how Osama bin Laden was able to take shelter in Pakistan, he declined repeated invitations to accuse the Pakistani authorities of colluding with Bin Laden. "We know that Pakistan's political leadership - and I spoke to Prime Minister Gilani and President Zardari yesterday - are staunch in the fight against extremism and terror and they've done huge amounts in their own country to try and combat it," he said. He also insisted that Britain had to continue to engage with Pakistan and that it would be wrong to have a "massive row" with the country.
? He played down suggestions that the death of Bin Laden would hasten the withdrawal of British troops from Afghanistan. "I don't think it will necessarily change any timetables, but we should use it as an opportunity, to say to Taliban that now is the time to separate yourselves from al-Qaida, to give up violence, to accept the basic tenants of the Afghan constitution," he said.
? He defended his decision to have dinner with Rebekah Brooks, the News International chief executive, before Christmas. This was controversial because at the time the government was deciding what to do about the bid by News Corporation (News International's parent company) for BSkyB. Cameron said he had had nothing to do with the decisions taken about the bid. Jeremy Hunt took the decision, and he did so "entirely properly". Cameron said prime ministers have lunches with editors and proprietors "all the time". Brooks is married to someone who is "a very, very old friend of mine [Charlie Brooks]", he said. Cameron said he even meets people from the Guardian.
? He called for a debate about privacy legislation. "We should discuss what is the right way forward," he said. But he did not want statutory regulation of the press, he said.
? He said that when he told Angela Eagle to "calm down, dear" at PMQS last week, "it was meant to be a humorous remark".
Humphrys asks how the coalition will continue, given that Chris Huhne has accused George Osborne of telling lies.
Cameron says the coalition will continue. At the Cobra meeting last night Conservative and Lib Dem ministers were taking decisions together about national security.
Q: Do you want a privacy law?
Cameron says he wants a debate on this. He does not want statutory regulation of the press. There is still more to be done through the Press Complaints Commission.
Q: Over Christmas you had dinner with Rebekah Brooks, the News International chief executive. Was that appropriate?
Cameron says he had nothing to do with the News Corporation bid for BSkyB. Jeremy Hunt had a quasi-judicial decision to take. He did it entirely properly.
Cameron says prime ministers meet newspaper editors and proprietors all the time. Brooks is married to a very old friend of his.
Q: When you told Angela Eagle to "calm down", did you lose your temper?
Cameron says no. Others had lost their temper.
Q: But it sounded sexist.
In the Commons noise is a problem. It would be nice to change that. But it can't be done.
MPs do work hard. PMQs is "incredibly noisy and rowdy". It is there to ensure that the prime minister is accountable. Maybe this was "not the funniest of remarks". But it's important to have a sense of humour, he says.
That's it. I'll post a summary soon.
Cameron says that under AV some voters are counted more than once. Humphrys says that's not true. Cameron says he's wrong.
Under AV, second preferences get counted.
Humphrys says his second preference would be counted too.
Cameron says he is wrong. He finds it worrying. Humphrys needs to go "back to school".
Q: Is it fair that a few thousand voters in marginal constituencies decide an election?
Cameron says it is not true to say that there are seats for life. Think of Michael Portillo, he says.
Under the current system, when a government needs to be kicked out, it can be kicked out.
It would be odd to reject this for a system only used in three other countries.
Q: But our system isn't used in other countries.
Cameron says it is. It's used in America.
Q: But they have primaries there.
Cameron says it is worrying if the BBC'S lead broadcaster does not realise how widely used first past the post is.
Humphrys turns to AV.
Q: Are you proud of the campaign you have been running?
Cameron says he is proud of the Conservative no to AV campaign.
Q: But the No to AV campaign has been telling lies?
Cameron says there are two campaigns. There's a Conservative campaign. He will defend any of its leaflets. The other campaign has been "robust".
Q: But the No to AV campaign have been saying babies would die if AV were introduced. Do you condone that?
Cameron says the No to AV campaign have run a "robust" campaign.
There would be costs to a new system, he says.
Q: But Australia does not use counting machines.
Cameron says that if you introduced a new system, you would be "very likely" to have counting machines. The former chief returning officer in London has said this would be inevitable.
Q: But these allegations are preposterous.
Cameron says he does not see it like that.
There are two cross-party campaigns, he says.
There are as many Labour MPs involved in the no campaign as in the yes campaign.
Q: Do you accept it is misleading to suggest babies lives will be put at risk if AV is introduced?
Cameron will not say this is misleading. A new system would cost money, he says. But there are more powerful arguments against AV.
Q: Could the death of Bin Laden hasten the withdrawal of British forces from Afghanistan?
Cameron says Bin Laden's death is "helpful".
If we can get a political reconciliation in Afghanistan, that would help.
Q: So British troops could come home earlier than planned?
Cameron says: "I'm not saying that."
They were meant to be talking about the elections, but Humphrys starts with the death of Osama bin Laden.
Q: When you went to Pakistan last year, you said Pakistan "looked both ways" on terrorism. Recently you went to Pakistan and rowed back from this. But you were right first time, weren't you?
Cameron says Pakistan has suffered more from terrorism than any other country on earth. He has spoken to Pakistan's president and prime minister. He wants to support them in the fight against terrorism. As for what support system Bin Laden had in Pakistan, "we don't know".
Q: But it's inconceivable that Bin Laden did not have support?
Cameron said there are questions to be asked. But as far as the president and prime minster of Pakistan are concerned, Bin Laden was a foreigner who had no place in Pakistan.
Q: Bin Laden must have been protected, mustn't he?
Cameron says those are questions that have to be asked. The government will be asking them of people in Pakistan. But, as prime minister, he takes the "very clear view" that it is in Britain's interests to work with the government of Pakistan. If we turned away from them, we would be left with an unstable nuclear power.
We should be working with the democratic forces in Pakistan who, like us, want to combat terrorism and extremism.
There is an opportunity here, Cameron says. There's a "huge opportunity" to say to the Taliban it must separate itself from al-Qaida.
The "right choice" is to engage with Pakistan.
There is also a connection between this and what is happening in North Africa. Bin Laden feared democracy in the Arab world.
John Humphrys is interviewing Cameron. He's starting now.
At last, the bank holiday bonanza is over and we're back to normal. In fact, with just two days to go before the election day, politics is even busier than usual. Nick Clegg has already been on the Today programme, and David Cameron will be on at 8.10am. And here's a full list of what's coming up.
9am: The cabinet meets, only a day after Chris Huhne was quoted in the Guardian saying that the Conservatives were "completely trashing [the Lib Dems] and Nick Clegg's leadership" and that this was "absurdly short-sighted and outrageous".
11.30am: Ed Miliband holds a press conference.
12.30pm: William Hague, Theresa May, John Healey and the Olympic rower James Cracknell address a No to AV rally.
3.30pm: David Cameron makes a statement to MPs about the death of Osama bin Laden.
I'll post a full summary of the Clegg interview later. He gave a very strong hint that he was in favour of proposal from a Lib Dem peer for the introduction of elected police commissioners, which is due in May 2012, to be delayed until the idea has been piloted.
Clegg said he had "a lot of sympathy" for the idea. "It's always best to work with evidence," he said. "If you can pilot something, most people would find that an entirely right way of going about things."
As usual, I'll be covering all the breaking political news, as well as looking at the papers and bringing you the best politics from the web. I'll post a lunchtime summary at around 1pm and an afternoon one at about 4pm.
Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2011/may/03/politics-live-blog
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